OnyxCobra Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 I don't currently have a way to monitor my IAT, i just remember the tuner telling me they were as high as 220 degrees after a few pulls. But letting the car idle helped reduce the temps because you're pulling cooler air through the blower which helped take the heat out of it, driving the car would accomplish the same thing.I don't know what my IAT is with just normal driving but if you're staying out of boost I don't see why the temps should be so high, i wouldn't expect it to get that hot if it's not compressing anything but then again i'm not an expert. (just looked back and saw you said 'excessive' boost)i'm running 9psi through the 2.2L, what about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.greg Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 I don't currently have a way to monitor my IAT, i just remember the tuner telling me they were as high as 220 degrees after a few pulls. But letting the car idle helped reduce the temps because you're pulling cooler air through the blower which helped take the heat out of it, driving the car would accomplish the same thing.I don't know what my IAT is with just normal driving but if you're staying out of boost I don't see why the temps should be so high, i wouldn't expect it to get that hot if it's not compressing anything but then again i'm not an expert. (just looked back and saw you said 'excessive' boost)i'm running 9psi through the 2.2L, what about you?I'm at 9psi on the 1.5 4v version. My 1.5 is rated up to 13psi max I believe so it should still be well within its range. I know mine lacks a bypass valve, so maybe that is why it never seems to cool down with just being driven regularly. That or maybe it was just because most of my time behind the wheel was during the summer, I haven't gotten to enjoy it much since it got cooler out. I mostly noticed from a few wot summer pulls it would touch 200 degrees and then it only seemed to drop back down to 180-190 after the wot pulls after driving normally the rest of the trip. Of course when the meth sprays they drop too. The few times I got it out in cool, sub 50 degree weather it stayed much lower and pulled much harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinschmidt1 Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 Just for comparison sake I used to datalog my vortech and the iats would be like 100-110 at wot when its 75-80 degrees out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnyxCobra Posted December 30, 2012 Report Share Posted December 30, 2012 That's an interesting point, maybe the bypass valve has something to do with that I'm really not sure.and yeah everything has lower IAT than the KB.just for comparison sake what would the average h/c/i 5.0 with a Vortech make for power? my build is relatively conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnbyu Posted January 9, 2013 Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 I picked Procharger over Vortech because setting up a front mount intercooler was much simpler given the driver's side location of the blower, after all the prochargers were designed to be intercooled. I've seen guys run custom front mount setups with the Vortech blowers but it gets very cramped with the piping to do so. Vortech has the option of their aftercooler, but it is pretty pricey and I'm not sure it fits the SN's, I know you'd need at least a fox TB setup but it may still not fit because our accessory drive sits further back than a fox. I also like the self contained design of the D1SC, I just like the idea of the blower having its own oil rather than sharing the engine's oil. Not having to try to tap the oil pan for the line to the blower was also a plus.As others have said... Vortech Vortech Vortech..You can now get an V3 Si kit, meaning that it's self contained and you no longer have to tap into the oil pan or use engine oil. If I started over, that's how I would do it now, just due to leaks. I have fought my feed line leaking a little bit, and it just seems to make a mess..Other than that, the Vortech is definitely the way to go when you are going to be 500rwhp or less. I'm running 315/30/18 Falken Azenis, which are a very sticky tire, and I can blow them off part throttle in second gear around 2000 rpm and above.. Boost really does come on pretty strong. ( I'm also running 12# ) Other than the blower, and exhaust, everything on the engine itself is stock, and has been run reliably for 8 years now.. The only issues I have had are harmonic balancers, which I am replacing my second one tomorrow.. If I switched to a fluidampr instead, I would stop having that problem as well. My good friend has a procharger on his 95 GT, and I just don't like the whole kits design. The intake for it sits behind the blower right above the headers and gets smashed by the hood. It really seems like they half assed the 94-95 kit.. I would like to be intercooled, but I will just spray some meth down the road. The Vortech Mondo Aftercooler will work for us as well, and all you have to do is switch to a fox intake, which is in my list of plans anyway, but you would want to find one used, as they are about $2500 new, which is more than an entire brand new S trim kit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 just for comparison sake what would the average h/c/i 5.0 with a Vortech make for power? my build is relatively conservative.My friends father's fox made 480ish RWHP with an average H/C/I + Vortech S-Trim setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilRoush Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I just saw this thread. Like MMR posted, I have made two boxed upper intakes to use the M112 on fox body 5.0L cars. Same idea as what I used to make for the 3.8L pushrod V6s, just with different ports cut into the bottom to match the stock lower intake on the 302. Down side is that is won't even come close to fitting under a stock hood. I'm not gonna say go for one or the other, but let's at least get FACTS out there instead of BS:As for 'heat soak'... I laugh. The internet gurus (most who have never delt with the blowers they are bashing) make it sound like you'll cut your power in half as the intake temp goes up. Sure, you lose a little.... but 8 out of 10 people won't notice it, especially on a street car. I didn't intercool the V6 set ups I designed b/c they didn't need it. The dynos and track results proved that over and over. My current M112 on the 4.6L is non intercooled - and I don't use anything to cool it down. Never had an issue with the blower/heat soak resulting in noticable lost performance etc... But if you really want it, there are several meth injection kits out there to help it drop. Personally, I want to put the power where you want it. On the street, most of the time you are in the lower RPM range. A postive displacement blower gives you just that. For those who say "too much low end power to be drivable", learn to drive. Having the power down low is no different than having a mega hp GT500 or something along those lines on the street. You just have to be a better driver with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 My buddies '07 GT500 made 749RWHP with a built motor, 3.4 whipple, etc and by far has been one of the most fun rides I've been on. Aside from his 8 second fox. Although I will say it did blow the tires away easily but he's one of the best drivers I've ever met. He raced it a bunch and I don't remember hearing him say heat soak. I'll text him. He had the same rear end setup as I have. 3.90, Detroit trutrak diff, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacho's_wit_cheez Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Vortech's are great if your on a budget, they're reliable and did i mention cheap.Procharger's same with the added ease of maintance also you wouldnt have to tap the block or run any lines for oil.kennel you have torque out the ass, torque, torque what sucks is cooling 15psi and your playing with danger. preferably i'm a fan of centrifugal blowers but thats just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I think people forget the new Vortech head units are self contained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacho's_wit_cheez Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Haha thats right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Just didn't want someone else to read this thread in the future and think otherwise. Because you can't post anything on the Internet that isn't true. I read it on the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacho's_wit_cheez Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 oh lawd.... i hate that commercial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Haha. I laugh so hard every time I see it. I wish there was more data out there about KBs on 5.0 pushrods. One big reason I'm hoping Onyx gets his car tuned and data logs the shit out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnyxCobra Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 pretty sure it's only the V3 Vortech that has a self contained lubraction system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 You are correct. That's the new version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnyxCobra Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 well you first said the new head units, you can buy new vortech kits that aren't self contained is all i was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Ok.... Nachoz, where did you go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blwnbyu Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I need a new blower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilRoush Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 kennel you have torque out the ass, torque, torque what sucks is cooling 15psi and your playing with danger. The part about the positive displacement blower is you don't need to run 15 psi to make power. Lower boost, same power and tada - no heat issues that you notice.Most PD guys will run up to about 9 psi on a stock bottom end (depending on set up). It puts you right at the limit of factory internals for hp/tq numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacho's_wit_cheez Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Ok.... Nachoz, where did you go?I was finally getting my ass to sleep bud.The part about the positive displacement blower is you don't need to run 15 psi to make power. Lower boost, same power and tada - no heat issues that you notice.tu'shae sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 The part about the positive displacement blower is you don't need to run 15 psi to make power. Lower boost, same power and tada - no heat issues that you notice.Most PD guys will run up to about 9 psi on a stock bottom end (depending on set up). It puts you right at the limit of factory internals for hp/tq numbers.I've always seen people with PD blowers on the 5.0s make less power # for # but maybe that's just me? So what you're saying doesn't work. You can't lower the boost and make same power. The modular cars might be a different story but this is 5.0 specific.It's like a Vortech S-Trim setup makes say 380rwhp and a KB makes 310? Yes the KB makes more TQ but not more HP. Those are both far from the limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Again I could be completely wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilRoush Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Could be right. In my head I was thinking the pushrod 3.8L response. The roots blower put down more hp/tq per psi than the same psi from a centri. 5.0 Magazine or MM/FF did are article awhile back using the big three (Vortech, Pro Charger and KB) and compared performance to cost. Anyone have it? The 'real world' numbers would be a nice step here. I'll do a google search quick.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I wish there were more people with KB 5.0s that could provide data logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilRoush Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I did dig out this fox with a front mount for those suggesting cooling. He posted on another forum the block split at 17 psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Yeah. He did a lot of custom work to get the A/A setup working. Which I know I can't do myself or have the extra money to spend which sucks because his setup is a BAMF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMR Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Wow that is alot of pipes in an enginebay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95riosnake Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 I love the finished product of that engine bay, I have read through the process he did to get it to that point and it's a ton of work. BUT, damnit it looks good. I love the symmetrical look of the pipes going into the inner fenders, that bay is a work of art IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilRoush Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Reminds me of the piping on the Super Coupe's that switched to an after market front mount air to air for the M90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revhead347 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 That's fantastic work. Just getting all the pullies together for that 8 rib belt must have been a ton of work. That's the cleanest setup I've ever seen.Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 I'm glad you came into the thread lilroush. You definitely bring another POV to the argument. Makes me think about the KB more but I just can't seem to get over certain parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcefedhatch Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Turbo>allSent from my iPhone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted January 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 This is about superchargers. Please keep the turbo content in another thread.Read the disclaimer in the first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcefedhatch Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Oh well I don't know.. I went straight for the kill from the start..Sent from my iPhone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forcefedhatch Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I'm gonna say pro charger cause it sounds nice Sent from my iPhone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinschmidt1 Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 Meh after going turbo id stay with a blower on a street car. Its just far more simple and you don't have to worry about the heat, leaks, shit catching on fire, pipes cracking ....plus instant power with zero lag time is always fun.Pro charger brackets were awful for my car...couldn't keep a belt. I think Vortech is just engineered better and cost way less to rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
